Tuesday
Feb202007
No Man's Land
Tuesday, February 20, 2007 at 11:30AM
So here's another one up for discussion. In the past few weeks I've had a number of interesting happenings regarding the intersection of my faith and my music.
- I had a show cancelled at a club because they found out I was a "christian artist".
- I had a show cancelled at a christian college because this site links to a brewery.
- I did an interview for a major music blog and was told later that if it was known I was a "christian artist" the interview would not have happened. The interviewer is an atheist with some painful history of organized religion. We also hit it off and had a wonderful conversation which I think we'll continue.
If you've come to this site for very long you've probably realized that A) I'm a Christian and B) I never talk about christian music. I don't talk about it because, for the most part, I really don't like it. I think, in a lot of ways, it does a disservice to both music and christianity.
The problem is, when I was 18 and moved to Nashvile to sign a "christian" record contract I didn't know you could be a Christian and still play regular music. So I didn't. I played "christian" music until my band broke up and I burned out on pretty much everything about Christianity.
I have made every one of my solo records without regard to the weird creature of "christian" music. I just made them for me. But I can't shake this CCM thing. My solo records show up under "inspirational" on iTunes.
On the other hand, some Christian colleges and venues have reacted to things I've posted on here and made it harder for me to get in there. It seems both sides have expectations that limit and constrict. One side talks about "being true to yourself" while the other speaks of "freedom" yet when I exercise my freedom to be myself, I find that I don't fit in very neatly with either side.
I know it seems like I'm complaining, but I don't mean to. I just don't know where I fit in, and I don't know how to change that. Do you have ideas? Have you seen ways other artists have successfully navigated this stuff? Am I asking the wrong questions? Do you think I should just pick a side and stick with it? Going full-on mainstream would mean starting over in a lot of ways, and I can barely support my family now. Does that mean I'm selling out? These are the thoughts that continually circle around in my brain. I trust you guys. You know me. I'd love your thoughts.
P.S. I want to say, also, that there are some truly wonderful things happening with Christian artists that would probably not be the same without the support of the church. Things like Blood:Water mission, Dalit Freedom Network and Compassion International. I am so proud to play a small part in what these organizations do, and its one of the reasons that playing in churches and Christian places is really rewarding and powerful.
- I had a show cancelled at a club because they found out I was a "christian artist".
- I had a show cancelled at a christian college because this site links to a brewery.
- I did an interview for a major music blog and was told later that if it was known I was a "christian artist" the interview would not have happened. The interviewer is an atheist with some painful history of organized religion. We also hit it off and had a wonderful conversation which I think we'll continue.
If you've come to this site for very long you've probably realized that A) I'm a Christian and B) I never talk about christian music. I don't talk about it because, for the most part, I really don't like it. I think, in a lot of ways, it does a disservice to both music and christianity.
The problem is, when I was 18 and moved to Nashvile to sign a "christian" record contract I didn't know you could be a Christian and still play regular music. So I didn't. I played "christian" music until my band broke up and I burned out on pretty much everything about Christianity.
I have made every one of my solo records without regard to the weird creature of "christian" music. I just made them for me. But I can't shake this CCM thing. My solo records show up under "inspirational" on iTunes.
On the other hand, some Christian colleges and venues have reacted to things I've posted on here and made it harder for me to get in there. It seems both sides have expectations that limit and constrict. One side talks about "being true to yourself" while the other speaks of "freedom" yet when I exercise my freedom to be myself, I find that I don't fit in very neatly with either side.
I know it seems like I'm complaining, but I don't mean to. I just don't know where I fit in, and I don't know how to change that. Do you have ideas? Have you seen ways other artists have successfully navigated this stuff? Am I asking the wrong questions? Do you think I should just pick a side and stick with it? Going full-on mainstream would mean starting over in a lot of ways, and I can barely support my family now. Does that mean I'm selling out? These are the thoughts that continually circle around in my brain. I trust you guys. You know me. I'd love your thoughts.
P.S. I want to say, also, that there are some truly wonderful things happening with Christian artists that would probably not be the same without the support of the church. Things like Blood:Water mission, Dalit Freedom Network and Compassion International. I am so proud to play a small part in what these organizations do, and its one of the reasons that playing in churches and Christian places is really rewarding and powerful.
Reader Comments (71)
Sufjan Stevens has a song with the same title, and it's written in the lovely time signature of 17/4. Which is incredible. I'll send it to you if you want it.
A good topic to wrestle with... heres a few random ramblings...
I think that we must be ourselves as artists and as people. Too simple? I don't know. For me, I must be authentic - the best art is always authentic.
Worrying about how others perceive me is a dangerous game. I won't be holy enough for some and too Christian for others.
In the end, I don't want regret. I think if sell out one way or another, that's what I'll get. Making any of these decisions based on money will always trip us up - make it based on remaining faithful to the Holy Spirit's tugging and your desire to make good art... and then trust God to provide.
Thanks for giving us something to think about : ).
AO,
Just a few comments in reply…some to offer encouragement, some to express shared frustration, and maybe some to exhort…
First and foremost be encouraged that God has greatly used your sharp pen and pride-crushingly-honest voice to touch my life in a way you will never comprehend on this side of eternity. “These Times� is one of the most needed and heartbreaking songs I have ever heard and “beggars at the foot of God’s door� ruins my pride upon every listening…you may not have a mansion but your words stand as a well lit city on a hill… you may have little money/power but you have been found as a vessel of honor worthy of the Master’s hand. How do you measure that? I hope God will continually fill you with an overwhelming joy and all surpassing peace at knowing you are being used in a way that affects the Kingdom.
Secondly, lets face it, you will never and can never please everyone. I am discouraged, yet not at all surprised, to hear about Christians canceling your show. Though I too would humbly offer a hesitant question as to the wisdom of advertising any kind of alcohol due our specific societies propensity for addiction and abuse (freely confessing our liberty, we yet strive to offend no one as much as is possible). We must not be surprised when people are not as spiritually mature as we are or if they just see an issue differently than we do. However, I am in no way surprised that the world would be cautious in hiring a singer who is a Christian…they know (at least to some degree) that there is a gulf of division between us…and they may have thought you to be one of the many “preachy� artists. All in all I wouldn’t want to take a risk at inviting someone into my house who might call me out or rub his differing opinions in my face (not that you would of course). It simply shows that they did not know your music. It seems you are at a crossroads where you have to decide what your highest priority is…if your highest priority is cashing in (which we know it isn’t) then drop any mention God or Jesus and just be another guy strumming a guitar and belting out great tracks…but if God’s glory is the highest desire of your family’s heart, then I would suggest continuing on the path you are on. Because you are distinguishing yourself as one of the better artists out there…and you just happen to be a follower of The Way. Just be comforted knowing that there are a ton of us out here who Love Jesus and love great music...
All in all I’d say you are doing a wonderful job…
Stay classy,
Bo
"The aim of an artist is not to resolve some question irrefutably, but to compel one to love life in all its manifestations and these are inexhaustable." -Tolstoy
This is what all great artists have managed to do in my life. Your music does well to recreate the manifestations of beauty and hardship, the simple and complex, all of those things that have intrinsic value unspeakable. I would not consider myself to be a Christian but you are a Christian I can still relate to.
Here's to hope.
"We judge a man's wisdom by his hope" - Emerson
Andy, I don't know how to answer any of your questions. In fact, I probably read your blog because you ask those questions, because you are trying to figure those things out, and because you continue on anyway.
I love your blog because you are honest. I love your music for the same reason. If nothing else, Andy, you have taught me that as artists and as people we have to be who we are. Labels (not the record producing kind) are others' attempts to define us. The only One with that right is the One we serve. He is making you into who He wants you to be. You just have to be that person.
Don't worry about other people. If they have a problem with who you are, that's their problem. If you are being true to who you believe God want's you to be, that's enough. Who cares what the world thinks (be that the world of Christian colleges or secular clubs)? The only opinion that matters is God's anyway. Do what He tells you, and trust Him to provide. That's the only way to live.
What do you mean by "going full-on mainstream"? Removing any reference to God in your music? It really doesn't seem possible to me. I think such an attempt would remove the depth of your music. Writing about what you're feeling at the time is what makes the music so good. It doesn't have to be all about Jesus all the time, like some CCM music is.
I'm going to go ahead and quote your friend Derek Webb here, from a recording of a concert at Owens Cross Roads United Methodist Church when he was touring for She Must and Shall Go Free. I think it fitting.
- Derek, "You think it might go without saying, that this song is about Jesus, but I realized some months ago that eleven years in a Christian band, and I believe this to be my first song about Jesus. Isn't that fascinating? Does that fascinate everybody? That surely fascinates me."
-Sandra, "What were all the other ones about?"
-Derek, "Uh me. And for that reason my wife tells me that I may be growing, which I certainly hope is true."
Oh, and four shows in the Omaha metro area? Totally sweet.
One thing that has not been commented on here is that you are in a tight spot financially. Your real breadwinner is a band and a group of artists that is solidly associated with the Christian scene (which has nothing to do with the quality of their work - if you're going to be in Christian music, you've picked the right crowd to associate with). Yeah, you can do what you want and not worry about what others think...but that might not put the food on the table for your wife and two daughters. Personally, I could not keep making the compromises that I had to keep making with an industry that cared about neither Christianity nor about music. I got out of it, went back to school, got a marketable graduate degree, and now I really do make the music I want to make and not worry about it because I'm not trying to pay the bills with it. Granted, I was not as far into it as you and did not have the level of "success" that you had, so it was a lot easier on a practical (not emotional) level to step away.
So, I guess in light of that (which I think is the real hang-up of your situation), you have a couple of options. You could probably go all out into Christian music, put up with the monster that is the industry, and have some radio hits, tour, and feed your family. You're talented enough to do that. You could also try to start over in the mainstream and probably be scraping along for the rest of your life. I would really respect that move, although I can't say I'd advise it. You could bag the whole thing for a few years and go to college or trade school and get a job that would insure security for your family and keep doing the music thing as much as you can (which, believe it or not, can be a lot if you have the energy and a wife who is willing to let you do it).
However, I think your real ticket is in the studio. I was very sad when you shut down Velvet Eagle. I respected the rationale behind it and thought it was great that you were following God's prompting in your life, but I was sad about it. Everything all of the other posts have said about your creativity being a blessing is soooooo true. I've spent so many hours pondering your songs and they've helped me understand lots of things about life. If you could be a freelance producer/engineer, a session player, and re-open your own studio, I think you could both pay the bills and still be salt in Nashville. The lyrical and musical creativity and talent and the "production skills" (no-how on the gear) that you have does not recognize Christian-secular boundaries. You can contribute to any band's sound, regardless of ideology. I think it would be great. And you already have a backlog of great sounding and inspiring records on your resume. I may be naive because I don't live in Nashville, LA, or New York...but I would think you could get some really good work and between freelancing, playing sessions, and producing in your own studio, piece together a livelihood for your family.
That's my suggestions. Don't get out of music if you don't have to to survive. You're too gifted for that!
Your willingness to articulate this struggle is wonderful. No easy answers here. Musicians or not, what you are coming up against is something many of us have wrestled with. Keep wrestling, and don't be pinned by those who want to force you into an either or proposition of Christian or secular culture.
Well, I don't know what there is left to add, but I'll type something: http://www.andrewosenga.com/blog/2007/02/20/no-mans-land/#comment-23076" rel="nofollow">what sevenmiles said up above about being in the right spot if you're taking fire from both sides is quite probably right.
At this point, I'm finding that there are two Christian worlds in America: those who buy into the subculture and those who don't. More and more, I'm seeing churches fleeing the subculture when they find that it's nothing more than commercialism and self-help trying to wrap themselves around the cross.
Oh, I do have one more thing to add: Happy birthday, buddy. Welcome to 28. I have hope and faith that 28 is gonna be awesome for us both. :D
Ok, so I didn't read all 30-some-odd-comments. But, I'll just say what I have to say, and if I repeat someone, so be it.
You should not pick a side. It's really weird how art can now be broken up into Christian or Non-Christian art. You are part of a movement to break down that wall, so that we once again begin to qualify Art as either Good or Bad. Keep making good art, and quite frankly, everyone else can suck it. Look at modern artist like Madeline L'Engle, Phil Keaggy, and Bill Mallonee, and take heart. I mean, MPJ just opened for Patty Griffin and Jim James!
The struggle with Faith (either fighting the church, or supporting the church) has been in most Good art for hundreds of years. Do not be afraid, keep it up Andy, and drop a brotha a line!
Peace. - Caleb
AO,
Keep trucking, my friend. When my band played with you guys, you showed more Christian brotherhood to us than a lot of bands who are the CCM poster-children. Seriously, the way you treated the "opening bands" spoke volumes to me.
Oh, and at least you openly admit that you like beer. How many CCM artists would lose 90% of their fanbase if they admitted that they drank (and won't admit it because they know it)? Here's what i'm going to do. I'm going to walk to my fridge, pour a Fat Tire, and raise my glass to you. After that I may just watch Fox News and laugh about the fact that the only newsworthy stories are Britney Spears' hair and Anna Nicole's paternity case.
I think there are a lot of artists that are trying to "walk the wire" between mainstream and CCM with some moderate amount of success. Bands like Over the Rhine have been doing it for years and Mute Math is about to get huge even though they are eschewing CCM. A lot of Tooth N' Nail artists (Anberlin, Mae) and Militia Group artists (Copeland) are emerging at mainstream venues, too. It can be done, but it's not easy.
I'd love to see you performing at places like Cornerstone Festival... that seems to be the kind of place that would have the audiences that would understand balancing faith and life.
AO, hang in there.. rejection is all part of it..
One thing I find interesting is the plethora of young christian musicians who want to be loved by the world..
that just will not happen if you are wanting widespread acceptance for selfish reasons.
Now.. if you are highly gifted and your sole desire is to serve humankind.. then.... then.. the doors of opportunity will be opened to you..
Be Christlike.. serve the world. Dont fret about being in it.. of it.. or especially loved by it.
all the best!
I agree that you are in a tough spot. When I have told people about you, generally they haven't heard of you. I assume that most people who are Christians and younger than 40 might have an idea of who Caedmons' Call is. So I tell them that you are in Caedmon's Call, which usually increases your profile and the chance that they will listen to you. However, honestly, to most of the people that I know that do not like christian subculture, but are christians, when I tell them that you are in caedmon's call, they assume that you guys are like all the other typical CCM music that they think sucks (with good cause) but I have to explain that you aren't and it is this weird conversation of defending Caedmon's and it seems like I am having to prove to them why they should listen/go to a show whatever of yours.
But the only thing that usually works is to give them some of your music and they generally like it, regardless of what they think of Caedmon's or CCM.
I think like others have said that Pedro The Lion, Sufjan Stevens and Dustin Kensrue (of Thrice) (his new album "Please Come Home" is so good) are good examples of Christians in music who have seemed to ride the fence.
I think that you are too far into the christian scene (the one not influenced by subculture) to distance yourself, it is how you are able to make your living. If you keep making honest music, people will notice and it won't matter if you are a christian or not.
You are starting to gain momentum and you should use it, if a place won't take you because you play in a "christian band" or because you are a christian but "drink" you probably didn't want to play at their place anyways.
I just wanted to say that I noticed that your Google AdSense sidebar now has links to relevant websites like "Christian Music" and "Praise Ringtones".
AO,
There isn't much left to be said that hasn't already been said. I don't usually post, but I lurk around your site everyday reading the latest. Your post reminds me of another long standing "Christian Artist" that cannot get a record contract or airplay for anything. His music is some of the best that I have ever heard. I am speaking of Bob Bennett. Been around for almost 30 years. He "hit it big" in 1982 with an album called "Matters of the Heart". A couple of years ago, CCM Magazine listed it as one of the top 25 Christian albums of all time. In his writings, he has talked about this problem for along time. In his case, the music, although clearly from a Christian world view, has tackeled all kinds of issues. Divorce comes to mind. His. He wrote a whole album around the pain he sufferred going through it. It is called "Songs from Bright Avenue". It is one of the most profound and emotionally raw album I have ever heard. If you haven't heard it, try to get a copy. Although it is long out of print. In Bob's case, he is just not marketable, partly because of physical image. He is a rather large individual and the Christian lebels just don't want to market someone like that. So he makes a living doing house concerts, and small venues. Through all of it, he has stayed true to who he is as a song writer. So, I guess my exortation to you is to continue to do what YOU know to be true for what you are called to do and be. The thought of "sticking to one side or the other" sounds pretty awfull. I think that most everyone who posted stated that it is your honesty and real life messages that appeal to everyone. If you changed that, then you would probably loose alot of listeners, not to mention your integrity.
andy, i'm not going to read all those comments...too many...so this may have already bee said. i dont envy your position. you are trying to be a great artist and trying to provide for your family with the same thing...your music. man, when it comes to my job, i do what i have to do to put bread on the table. whatever my boss wants is what i do, even if it means writing cheesy CCM drivel that i think will sell records (mixing scenarios here).
all i know is that to this point you have made brilliant music. powerful, moving, inspiring music. thank you for that.
you gotta be true to yourself. what is your #1 priority? making great art or searching for greater financial security for your family? i think both are noble, and arent mutually exclusive. but ultimately one probbaly carries more weight for you. and if you figure out which one it is, then you know and you can make decisions based on that and feel good about it.
determined that you are an artist and refuse to put out anything less than the best? then go for it.
determined that you will put your family's security above anything else? then write things that sell and provide for them.
of course, the issue is not nearly as black and white as i am pretending it is, but i think the issue is not which approach is right, i think it comes down to which approach matches up best with your values...and only you know that.
love ya bro,
bry
As long as you're in Caedmon's and grant interviews to Christian websites, you'll be labeled a "Christian artist."
Your solo records are "Folk" on iTunes, not "Inspirational." Whatcha talkin about?
Hey Andy,
As a fellow CCM artist struggling to make it in these crazy times I realize that so much of the world's music, this "secular" music, is leading this country off course, leading them to a so-called evil east.
My advice to you, then, is simply this: Go west, young man.
I love you.
-Smitty
P.S. Let's write something sometime, eh? I'll bring the rhyming dictionary, you bring the Fat Tires.
Not to be a thread hog (because I already have one LONG post under my belt), but I had to hang out some props for Greg B for referencing one of my favorites--Bob Bennett. Greg must be a senior member of the crew here like me because Bob has been around for a long time.
In my travels, I word-of-mouth promote guys like Bob Bennett and I often have the sense that those recommendations fall on deaf ears. It's sad because there's something absolutely wonderful about turning somebody on to such treasure. It's like the honor of being the one to show somebody the Grand Canyon for the first time in their life. So, it's nice to catch such a random, unsolicited mention of a wonderful artist like Bob.
Everything Greg wrote about Bennett is dead-on. He is a top shelf lyricist, plays the acoustic guitar like a magician, and shares AO's candor and open-minded approach to songwriting. Like AO, Bennett fits the profile of that rare christian singer/songwriter that carry the courage to be candid. Candor extends honesty one step further, into the realm of the personal. While honesty is difficult, candor is rare. Guys like Osenga and Bennett, though from different generations, share the willingness/skill/gift to write candidly and to do it with eloquence.
Speaking of eloquence, can I just say that the posting contributors over the last few months around here impress me to no end? Such diverse perspectives and positions, yet wrapped in grace, kindness, and charity. It's a joy to find Jesus in my favorite music. Equally, it's just as joyful to hear Jesus heartbeat in each of you.
Andy, you address a struggle that I've been thinking about lately: why can't Christians make art without pretense? My medium tends to be stories rather than songs, but I think the markets are somewhat similar: do I write explicitly "CBA" Christian books that feature unreal characters, unbelievable scenarios, and everything resolving perfectly? Or do I write aiming to write well, with good, deep, real characters and situations that resonate with real life? If I do the latter, Christian interviewers will batter me for not being more explicit with my faith. If I do the former, non-christian folks won't touch it and I'll burn out.
All that to say, you are a huge encouragement to me and my friends who are trying to do good art that is informed by our world-view. Your writing is phenomenal and musically I can count on your albums to not feature CCM-styled boring music. I don't know what you do with the conflict with venues and interviewers. The subculture with which we are affiliated somehow thinks that a) Christian = "safe for the whole family" and b) person who drinks beer = not safe for the whole family. It's an unreal equation.
Now that there's funny, I don't care who you are. :-)
CJH
Andy my friend, you have got to read "Imagine", by Steve Turner! It's SO good! It's subtitle is, "a vision for Christians in the arts." I think it would be right down your alley and really encouraging.
Along the same lines of the book, here are some of my thoughts;
Being a "Christian" artist doesn't mean that every thing we write has "Jesus" in it 27 times or even once. It simply means that we are someone in love with Jesus trying to love other people as ourselves...oh yeah, and we happen to do art.
In his book, Steve writes this, "When I said that I would like to be a writer, an older Christian said to me, 'that would be nice. There are some good Christian magazines around, ' the assumption being that Christians should write for Christians about Christianity. The idea that I might want to write for a national newspaper or magazine on general issues wasn't considered. Instinctively, I felt that this was not right. I didn't yet have the theology to back it up, just a guy feeling that Christians could, and should, be involved in all areas of culture."
Here's another longer excerpt, but I thought you might enjoy it,
"When I interviewed John Lennon at the time of his album 'Imagine', he suddenly flipped open a newspaper that had been sent to him by members of one of the new Jesus people communities that were springing up in America as evangelism began meeting the needs of the hippie generation. The centerfold was an open letter to the former Beatle written by a fan who had become a Christian. The essential message was, 'You need Jesus, John.'
"Lennon read the whole letter to me, put the paper down on his desk and asked, 'What do you think of that?' I'm sure he was expecting me to pour scorn on the correspondent, as much other music journalists would have done, but I didn't. Instead we had a debate about the nature of Christianity ('I know all that Christian jazz') in which he listened to me explain my faith ('Well, good luck to you') and gave me a few of his own ideas ('God is a concept by which we measure our pain').
"Being a journalist allowed me to observe the creative process at close quarters. Bands would ask my opinion of demo tapes, producers would show me how certain studio effects were created, songwriters would share material that they had only just written. (I wish I'd kept the interview tape where David Bowie previewed his new song 'Andy Warhol' for me while I paid a visit to the bathroom.)
"All the time I was reporting on these rock musicians I was writing and performing my own poetry. I was happy to contribute to Christian events but saw my main calling as being in the coffee bars and folk clubs where the new oral poetry scene was taking off. I resented ever being described as a 'Christian poet' because the label was too confining. I believed that Christians should be writing poetry infused with godly perception rather than poetry about religion."
Good stuff right there, you've got to pick up the book!
Anyways, so many Christians have said that we should only write songs dealing directly with Christian issues...i.e. every song should be either a worship song, hymn, or song describing how to live as a Christian...but at the same time they would sing the praises of Haydn or Mozart, purely classical, instrumental music meant for shear enjoyment. So...it's totally legitimate to write music purely for enjoyment with no deep meaning...Such as Andy Peterson's song about white nacho cheese sauce :)
I absolutely love playing at a bar here in Tokyo called the Rock Factory. I play there almost every Monday and its awesome! Most of what I write and play deal with life from Christian world view and is pretty up front, but I have a great relationship with the people there. I hang out with them and God gives me opportunities to talk about Him all the time. Its been sweet building relationships with people at the Rock Factory, and some have even come to church! Then my friend Kat is there, too, and MC's the night. She is an awesome Christian and we do the same thing as far as building relationships and talking about God, but most of her songs are more about relationships with people, great songs, and not as up front as most of mine, yet we have identical experiences with people there and sharing Christ.
Moral of the story: Be real, write what's on your heart, love Jesus, love people, and listen to people. You, Andy, are one of the most real people I know, and the image of Jesus. Ive been moved and encouraged by "Too Far to Walk" and "Kara", and I'm very glad that you've written both! Be encouraged bro!
In Christ who is our life,
Mark
The problem with CCM is not the artists. The problem is the industry itself. Christian radio and the labels themselves are the problem. I would venture to guess that if these CCM artists had the opportunity to create music their way, and not the way they are told would "sell," we would have an entirely different situation. As long as the industry continues to dictate, the problem will continue. Diversity in music is not bad. I listen to lots of music most folks here would hate. I enjoy some of the CCM stuff out there. It's not all bad. I do think, however, that the industry is changing. Christian radio will have to adapt soon, or itunes will put them out for good. Folks are no longer at the mercy of radio to supply their music. They can easily hunt down any kind of music they desire. So hang in there. Keep doing what you're doing. Don't be ashamed to write songs that may be considered CCM (some of us actually like it). You're on the cutting edge of making the industry better. What you are doing is making a difference, even if you can't see it.