Monday
Nov122007
rebuilding the walls
Monday, November 12, 2007 at 06:35PM
Yesterday at church our pastor talked about Nehemiah, how in the 5th chapter of his book he stands up against unethical taxation and interest. Taxes and interest. How stunningly timeless those issues are, eh?
I've been thinking, as you know, a ton about our government (in America) and where a follower of Jesus fits in with it. Reading this about Nehemiah, how he stood up and got the government to change its policies to treat people better, has really solidified some things for me.
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Last week I ran across an article in the New York Times called "The Evangelical Crackup" which absolutely fascinated me (CLICK HERE to read it). It talks about how the Church in America has really changed over the last twenty years, and specifically how this affects the relationship between the Church and the Republican party.
I was almost breathless to read the following two paragraphs, as I felt it could have come out of my own autobiography...
For the conservative Christian leadership, what is most worrisome about the evangelical disappointment with President Bush is that it coincides with a widening philosophical rift. Ever since they broke with the mainline Protestant churches nearly 100 years ago, the hallmark of evangelicals' theology has been a vision of modern society as a sinking ship, sliding toward depravity and sin. For evangelicals, the altar call was the only life raft — a chance to accept Jesus Christ, rebirth and salvation. Falwell, Dobson and their generation saw their political activism as essentially defensive, fighting to keep traditional moral codes in place so their children could have a chance at the raft.
But many younger evangelicals — and some old-timers — take a less fatalistic view. For them, the born-again experience of accepting Jesus is just the beginning. What follows is a long-term process of “spiritual formation� that involves applying his teachings in the here and now. They do not see society as a moribund vessel. They talk more about a biblical imperative to fix up the ship by contributing to the betterment of their communities and the world. They support traditional charities but also public policies that address health care, race, poverty and the environment.
Besides being slightly offended that my own discoveries and decisions weren't quite as unique as I thought, I was able to really see where I fit in a bigger way.
-----
After church Sunday we came home, put the girls to bed and then I headed out to a Starbucks to sign some petitions to get Ron Paul on the ballot in the Tennessee State Primary. If I really think that obedience to God means calling my government to be responsible and just then I have to be involved, and for my money, nobody better represents what I think is responsible and just than Dr. Paul.
But I'm not writing to evangelize for a Presidential candidate. (Though you can CLICK HERE if you want to read about him.) What really came to mind as I was listening to our pastor and reading about Nehemiah was just how far from that example we've come.
Our President and his associates talk often about our enemies. We were attacked by some citizens of a country six years ago. So now we're in a second country and about to invade a third, Iran, because they might have a Nuclear bomb in five years and they might want to use it on us. Nevermind that we never found evidence of the weapons that caused our invasion of Iran, we're now talking about invading our third country in six years. Because they're our enemies.
Matthew 5:44 : But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.
Now I've heard people say that the government isn't expected to play by those rules, and in some sense I agree. But, our President is a Christian. This command is expected of him. I don't want to cast stones, I don't want to beat up on him or anything, but I say this : I have not seen any amount of love for our enemies from our current administration. And this makes me very sad.
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The reason that NY Times article spoke to me is the same reason I believe our President is wrong. Just like Pat Robertson is wrong. For so long, the Church has tried to take over, or else. But that's the opposite of love.
It's not our call as Christians to make the world just like us, and to hate and try to destroy the things that aren't. It's to show the world what Christ has done for us. And we do that by turning the other cheek and by seeking forgiveness for the wrongs we've done. In the grand sense, this is how we change the world. It's the ONLY way we change the world.
-----
I'm not the President. I don't want to be. I can't imagine the pressure and the criticisms you'd have to face. But it's my duty as a Christian, I believe, to fight injustice, to make a stand for peace. And so I'm signing petitions for a Presidential candidate who disapproves of this war, among other things. And I'm risking you not coming back here and I'm talking about it on my blog, hoping somebody reads this and decides to do something as well.
I am so tired of complainy Americans and complainy Christians. As DC Talk put it, and this is incredibly true: love is a verb. It is action. It is not passive. To love doesn't mean hoping things get better. It means trying to make things better. That may mean you find out who's running and you find somebody you can vote FOR, or you move to Africa or you join the Mocha Club or you get involved with Big Brothers/Big Sisters. It may mean you and your wife go to counseling, or you call your Dad and apologize. It means you do something.
Nehemiah is an example for us. We are not to accept this world around us. It is broken. We won't succeed in fixing it, at large, but God allows millions of victories within it, and we should seek to be swimming in them.
I don't really know all that I'm saying, just sort of putting my thoughts out there, but I'm telling you now that I want to be different. Different than I am and different from the world around me. I don't want to hate my enemies and I don't want to be a part of a country that does. I want people to see me and see joy and truth, not shame or indignation.
I believe that God calls us to good things. To think on them and to do them. And that we're to try our hardest to right the wrongs around us, as God rights the wrongs within us.
I've been thinking, as you know, a ton about our government (in America) and where a follower of Jesus fits in with it. Reading this about Nehemiah, how he stood up and got the government to change its policies to treat people better, has really solidified some things for me.
-----
Last week I ran across an article in the New York Times called "The Evangelical Crackup" which absolutely fascinated me (CLICK HERE to read it). It talks about how the Church in America has really changed over the last twenty years, and specifically how this affects the relationship between the Church and the Republican party.
I was almost breathless to read the following two paragraphs, as I felt it could have come out of my own autobiography...
For the conservative Christian leadership, what is most worrisome about the evangelical disappointment with President Bush is that it coincides with a widening philosophical rift. Ever since they broke with the mainline Protestant churches nearly 100 years ago, the hallmark of evangelicals' theology has been a vision of modern society as a sinking ship, sliding toward depravity and sin. For evangelicals, the altar call was the only life raft — a chance to accept Jesus Christ, rebirth and salvation. Falwell, Dobson and their generation saw their political activism as essentially defensive, fighting to keep traditional moral codes in place so their children could have a chance at the raft.
But many younger evangelicals — and some old-timers — take a less fatalistic view. For them, the born-again experience of accepting Jesus is just the beginning. What follows is a long-term process of “spiritual formation� that involves applying his teachings in the here and now. They do not see society as a moribund vessel. They talk more about a biblical imperative to fix up the ship by contributing to the betterment of their communities and the world. They support traditional charities but also public policies that address health care, race, poverty and the environment.
Besides being slightly offended that my own discoveries and decisions weren't quite as unique as I thought, I was able to really see where I fit in a bigger way.
-----
After church Sunday we came home, put the girls to bed and then I headed out to a Starbucks to sign some petitions to get Ron Paul on the ballot in the Tennessee State Primary. If I really think that obedience to God means calling my government to be responsible and just then I have to be involved, and for my money, nobody better represents what I think is responsible and just than Dr. Paul.
But I'm not writing to evangelize for a Presidential candidate. (Though you can CLICK HERE if you want to read about him.) What really came to mind as I was listening to our pastor and reading about Nehemiah was just how far from that example we've come.
Our President and his associates talk often about our enemies. We were attacked by some citizens of a country six years ago. So now we're in a second country and about to invade a third, Iran, because they might have a Nuclear bomb in five years and they might want to use it on us. Nevermind that we never found evidence of the weapons that caused our invasion of Iran, we're now talking about invading our third country in six years. Because they're our enemies.
Matthew 5:44 : But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.
Now I've heard people say that the government isn't expected to play by those rules, and in some sense I agree. But, our President is a Christian. This command is expected of him. I don't want to cast stones, I don't want to beat up on him or anything, but I say this : I have not seen any amount of love for our enemies from our current administration. And this makes me very sad.
-----
The reason that NY Times article spoke to me is the same reason I believe our President is wrong. Just like Pat Robertson is wrong. For so long, the Church has tried to take over, or else. But that's the opposite of love.
It's not our call as Christians to make the world just like us, and to hate and try to destroy the things that aren't. It's to show the world what Christ has done for us. And we do that by turning the other cheek and by seeking forgiveness for the wrongs we've done. In the grand sense, this is how we change the world. It's the ONLY way we change the world.
-----
I'm not the President. I don't want to be. I can't imagine the pressure and the criticisms you'd have to face. But it's my duty as a Christian, I believe, to fight injustice, to make a stand for peace. And so I'm signing petitions for a Presidential candidate who disapproves of this war, among other things. And I'm risking you not coming back here and I'm talking about it on my blog, hoping somebody reads this and decides to do something as well.
I am so tired of complainy Americans and complainy Christians. As DC Talk put it, and this is incredibly true: love is a verb. It is action. It is not passive. To love doesn't mean hoping things get better. It means trying to make things better. That may mean you find out who's running and you find somebody you can vote FOR, or you move to Africa or you join the Mocha Club or you get involved with Big Brothers/Big Sisters. It may mean you and your wife go to counseling, or you call your Dad and apologize. It means you do something.
Nehemiah is an example for us. We are not to accept this world around us. It is broken. We won't succeed in fixing it, at large, but God allows millions of victories within it, and we should seek to be swimming in them.
I don't really know all that I'm saying, just sort of putting my thoughts out there, but I'm telling you now that I want to be different. Different than I am and different from the world around me. I don't want to hate my enemies and I don't want to be a part of a country that does. I want people to see me and see joy and truth, not shame or indignation.
I believe that God calls us to good things. To think on them and to do them. And that we're to try our hardest to right the wrongs around us, as God rights the wrongs within us.
Reader Comments (34)
I'm heartened that you'd write all this, but disheartened that you're quasi-shilling for a Libertarian-in-Republican-clothing that would, in my mind, accelerate the push towards individualism that is, I believe, destroying American society. [Because, as I see it, Libertarians see individual rights as the most important, while I'm very much a social contract person.]
And just so we have lots of fun, let me note that, asked to vote for one of the candidates today, I'd vote for Hillary Clinton ... which, well, shocks me, as a Kemp, Bush, Bush voter.
Ahhhh, what fun. :)
[I'm not mad, though.]
an excellent book that takes christians to task in the lack of participation in government, arts, sciences, intellectualism, etc. is http://www.amazon.com/Scandal-Evangelical-Mind-Mark-Noll/dp/0802841805/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1194917901&sr=1-3" rel="nofollow">the scandal of the evangelical mind by mark noll.
read it!
There is a difference in loving our enemies, the people of the countries we are at war with BUT fighting to remove the governments of those countries who do not represent their peoples and who (lest we forget 9/11) or the words of the leaders of Iran, seek to eliminate all non-muslims (in their view of muslims) or even those muslims who have different ways of worshipping. The governments that seek to develop weapons to destroy Americans, Israel, and eventually all who express different beliefs than them.
It is one thing to love our "enemies", it is a far different thing to endlessly pander to those who would want to rule the world under their particular form of religion, because we don't want to stand up against them.
One of the true beauties of our democracy is that YOU can have your beliefs, I can have mine (albeit with minor differences), and the next guy can have his or hers.
We do need to participate in our government but we cannot turn a blind eye to the real world aspects of fanaticism, terrorism whether in physical means (blowing up innocents) or in financial means as other governments may seek to use.
"Can't we all just get along" is a wonderful ideal, but an impractical impossibility - being given the selfish, greedy and prideful nature of man...the true curse of the serpent?
Sorry for the lengthy rant...but appreciate the chance to debate!
I just want to say amen to your post. Good thoughts. And I'm definitely gonna read that NY Times article now.
I think DC Talk put it more like, "Love is a... love is a... love is a verrrRRRB!"
Hmmmm...... I think I agree with almost everything that you said. I wonder what would have happened if we would have turned the other cheek instead of fighting back against the extremists, and Iraq?
We might all be dead, there might be a huge revival of the spirit going on in the middle east and in America, or we might be gripping about not going to war instead of going to war.
I don't know, but i do agree that it is time to put actions to words as Christians and to begin loving our enemies even if it means our own deaths. Thats how far Christ went, so we should be willing to do the same.
I have no faith in time to bring change if all we do is wait for it to happen.
Hmmm...
1) Geof... I understand your point about Liberterians and the *indiviudliastic* fears... let me offer a few thoughts on Ron Paul's key issues from my understanding...
He favors a small central government and more state/local control.
This is a traditional Republican value.
He believes in a "non-policeing the world" foreign policy.
This was a traditional Republican value.
He votes against taxes.
Look at his record... this is mind blowing... no, really, go look it up! I don't need to tell you this is a trad Republican value...
I can see where you might get the "Liberterian" idea from RP from old Youtube clips or some of more tertiary/sideline issues... but his central beliefs seems very inline with traditional republican values...
To Jack:
I haven't forgotten 9/11... what I remember about is that some evil men from near or in the Mid East flew planes into US buildings. I won't forget it.
Can you explain the connection between 9/11 and Iraq to me? I'm not being an ass... I honestly never got it. What do the two have to do with each other ?
Yes, I believe that many Shia Muslims *would* argue their goal is Muslim world rule, including many Iranians...
Does this give us the right to pre-emptively nuke them? Haven't we faced this sort of tyranny before?
I don't think we should pander to their leaders. I also don't think we should do what we're doing in Irag. Anybody *not* from the US or with half a brain would realize GWB knows as much about Islamic culture and their mindset as the Cubs know about winning the big one.
Thanks for your comments everybody. And Jack, I totally hear you, but my concern is that we jump so quickly these days to attacking people who might desire to hurt us. I think this is bad for three main reasons.
1. There's a huge possibility that their desire won't be enough to create the weapons. They're expensive and hard to make, and the governments are changing hands so quickly, it's a great likelihood no threat will ever actually come. At one point Russia had over 20,000 nuclear weapons pointed our nation. Not one was ever fired.
2. If we know people are wanting to hurt us and are planning it years in advance, wouldn't it be wiser to try and change their minds than to hurt them? The drive to punish us might drastically decrease if we went and gave them schools, medical supplies, etc... Or if we apologized for our actions that have caused their resentment, which leads to...
3. We ought to look at stopping our actions currently in those countries. In some places we've been bombing them, recruiting them and stealing resources from them for over 50 years. They aren't wanting to attack us because we're free, as we're so often told, but because of how we've treated them over time.
But I totally agree with your main point. We DO neet to be involved in our government, even if we disagree on the best way to solve the situations. Together, we can look to be pro-active in this world in a way that inspires change, instead of rushing in to wars for it.
I'm a lurker - not a poster...but I was having a similar conversation to this with a friend this past weekend who mentioned that a "Christian response" to 9/11 would have been to take a more diplomatic approach to all this stuff (the "change their minds" theory you mention). And while I don't have any data to support my opinion here (heck, I don't even know who I'm voting for yet!), I just can never believe that change of mindset you mention will EVER occur without some sort of "persuasion" (e.g. invasion)?
This is not a "war" of geography - it is a "fight" for ideals. It's not the US against Iraq. It's western ideals (you can argue what these are - but I see them as things like freedom of speech, religion, seperation of church and state, equal opportunity for all, etc.) against a complex history of thousands of years of oppression of some sort (e.g. less financially fortunate countries as a whole with governments formulated on religious beliefs and providing little opportunity for a commoner outside of joining a radical anti-US sect when they turn 5 years old to support their family). How can you expect people/cultures that were around long before the existence of the US to change their minds so readily to support an ideology that has only been around for a few hundred years?
I hate the fact that people are dying in Iraq. But at the end of the day some folks who didn't have it as good as we do here in the US were taught to hate us and they bought it becuase they probably didn't have a better option - then they flew some planes into some buildings and killed a bunch of innocent folks. I think you said it pretty good in one of your songs "when we're fed that we are nothing we'll believe it, and then do as we are told". Sure, we can turn the other cheek - and maybe that's the right thing to do. But if our government wants to prevent someone from flying a plane into the Sears tower in 10 years then our government needs to do a bit more than just trying to reason or negotiate with others about what happened on 9/11. WMDs, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran - the specific "measurable" explanations and locations are fodder for the media. Ultimately...
Why did some folks fly planes into the World Trade Center and if a responsibility of our government is to protect it's citizens, what realistically can the US do to prevent it from happening again? I'm not sure there are too many answers to that question.
Part I God
Ok. First, Andy, I love your blogs. I love your blogs because you actually think, and reason things out. God saw the error in my thinking years ago, and gave me Blue Like Jazz to read. Since then my thoughts have changed from seeing strict right and wrong, to seeing people and relationships (imperfections and all).
I want to throw a couple things at you though, and see what ya think. I think they have merit. A lot of what you say i agree with, but i look at them two ways instead.
As of late, i've been going through the Old testament and reading the stories that i've grown up with, as well as the lesser, "weirder" stories that tend to reside there. I believe that I serve a God that is very patient and loving. But at the same time He is a just God. And a God that doesn't shy's away from blood.... (don't worry, i'm not fanatical). Right now i'm in 2nd Samuel, as David is King...(whether or not Israel wants him or not). You know what i noticed? He fights a lot. Seriously. He goes out, sword in hand, and pulls a Brave Heart. We see Him as a shepherd, protecting his sheep, getting his feet wet in the army with Goliath, and later as he is the king of Israel. Likewise, God isn't shy either. God struck many a man down. When Israel enters the promise land, God tells them to kill every man Woman and Child. Why? So they don't get ensnared by there gods. Of course because they are like me and you, they leave some survivors. And what happens? They forsake God for cheap imitations. I say this not to prove a political point, but to say that our God is not just this loving God, he is also a just, Judge and Justice. I don't know how to reconcile a just God with merciful God. I simply don't know how. But i do know that i can't simply throw one out because it's more convenient to say that God is only love. He is, but he's also more.
Personally i'm not a huge fan of Bush ... (who is!?) And though i don't want to use any comparison to David to justify his going to war with Iraq, I think it was rushed and poorly planned. But you can't say that because he is a Christian, he shouldn't war against other nations. That argument doesn't stand up alone. He shouldn’t have gone to war with them for other reasons probably, but i don't think that because he's a Christian he can’t go to war.
Part II Nuclear war
Couple of other things I wanted to note In response to your response, The cold war. I’ve talked to several people, who went through it, and they will tell you. They lived in daily fear that, at the height of the cold war, they will tell you that they believed they would be bombed. It was an act of God that neither nation came to that point. WE came ever so close during the Cuban missile crisis. Talking about how Russia had 25000 nuclear warheads aimed at us, but it never happened, is a very flippant attitude, and doesn’t fit, and the argument doesn’t work. We came So close to nuclear war. I am a big fan of keeping nuclear weapons out of the hands of people who would potentially use them. And as we all know, the president of Iran is a kind and loving man, who likes Jews, and always honors his word…
Also as much as we don’t like Iran, I seriously doubt that Bush is stupid enough to think about starting a war with Iran. We already have two in our hands right now, and we don’t have the resources to start a third. Secondly, you need some semblance of congressional support for that, and as we all know congress in not terribly pleased with their leader either.
Part III Human Nature
The last thing that I wanted to touch bases with you about is prevention vs. reality.
I am a firm believer in prevention. I took a course a while back in cultural anthropology, and I am convinced you need to know the people you interact with. The war didn’t work because no one really knew about iraq and the people, how their culture thinks, how it’s not just one culture but literally hundreds of cultures that are warring against each other. I believe you need to know those who you want to help or hurt. One of the shortcoming of the united states is our ethnocentrism, and when you put it with foreign politics, it is not often pretty. In your second and third point, you say that we should convince people to like us, instead of not. Unfortunately, that’s not real, and it doesn’t work in a world where that is not the majority of thought. Especially now, when people don’t like us period. People are rarely of the same mind. And I’ve met people who just don’t like people, and for no good reason either. They just don’t like them. They’re jealous that others have more than themselves, there have perceived injustices, different religion, they want power, etc
These people, have walked the earth, and will always walk along the earth. And as long as they do, they will convince their followers to hate, to perceive others less than human. I’ve seen, and you too I’m sure, have seen the picture of a nazi SS tossing up a babie, then aiming their guns at it. This is real, because there is sin. And until there is no sin, there will be evil men leading other nations, cultures, groups, to kill others. Though I believe In being compassionate, and loving your neighbor, I do believe that there needs to be some sort of defensive preventions, i.e not letting Iran or North Korea (the latter *Looking* like they are finally giving up) have nuclear possession. This is what we call smart prevention. Not letting bad guys have guns.
Let me put it like this. When Jesus Christ came down on earth, He loved people (Verb). And yet, they Still tried to kill, and they finally did. Just because we love our neighbors, we have no idea they will love us in return. Put this into politics, it means we have no guarantee, and it means that no matter what we do, people will always want to kill us. Until God comes an Reigns. This does not mean that we build the biggest bombs and always threaten to use them, but that we are wise, because people are people. "Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves.� -Jesus
All these arguments, are not meant to be taken to the extreme, to justify. I am a huge believer in moderation. I point these out, as the other side of my beliefs, that God is loving, that we should be to.
mandomatt:
I'll honestly take tax and spend over borrow and spend. I'd rather not compete with the US government as a debtor. :) [Note: I have not always held to this position.]
Geof...
LOL... why does it have to be either one...
SMALL GOVERNMENT!
Ron Paul is like Dave Ramsey for our government!
Short Post:
1. The war in Iraq accomplished the task of removing a murderous dictator from his position of ultimate power over his people.
2. Iran would very likely use a nuclear weapon if it could - on Israel.
3. I truly have a love for the people in the Middle East but the majority of their leaders are thugs. They need to go.
4. I don't know who I will vote for but it won't be someone who has zero chance to win. I just don't see Dr. Paul having a legitimate shot
5. I think the "Christian Right" sees their power slipping away and they are panicking. Not sure how I feel about that.
Oh yeah:
6. I love Andy and his blog because even if he disagrees with you he respects your thoughts and does not seek to ridicule but to have a discourse. Very rare in people who have a political conscience.
I am a fence-riding, conflict-avoiding, pushover...which means that my positions on a lot of these things change, but here's what I think today: Everything you said about Christians loving their enemies is right on. That's the reason Jesus turned the world upside down--because he loved it. That's how we can turn the world upside down. But as far as Iraq goes, I think the best way for us to love them is to finish what we started. I think that if we leave now, we will be resented to an even higher degree by the Middle East. I think that the President needs to admit the mistakes he made to us and to the Iraqis and commit to making it right (as much as in our power...which is limited for sure).
I am looking forward to the election because, no matter who wins, something is bound to change. And change is what the country needs. It may or may not work, but it's worth a shot. And for the record, I think Ron Paul is a nut. But I still heart AO.
So here's a question: If people attacked America because of our freedom, our Western ideals, then why haven't they attacked other democracies? Japan? France? Ireland? Germany (now)? South America? There is a reason they've targeted us. It's because of what we've done in their countries for the last fifty years. We are fools to ignore this.
We've hardly been the only target:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Islamist_terror_bombings_in_France" rel="nofollow">France
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11_March_2004_Madrid_train_bombings" rel="nofollow">Spain
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_2005_London_bombings
No doubt our Middle Eastern policies have made a lot of people over there mad and murderous; that does not necessarily mean those policies were wrong. Granted they may very well be bad, but we ought not use the response of Al Qaeda and their ilk as a barometer of the worthiness of the cause. There are plenty of other ways to measure it, and that should be the focus of the debate.
What specifically have "we" done in "their" countries for the last fifty years?
not an expert on what we have done in their countries for the last fifty years, but i think our relationship with israel has a lot to do with the hatred of the united states in the middle east.
First, Ron Paul rocks. love this video.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=FG2PUZoukfA
we could do a lot more to stop terrorism by feeding the poor and providing much needed medication in Africa and the Middle East than setting up military bases there and dropping bombs. and i don't mean give them money. i mean go there and feed them. there is so much more here, but i'll leave it simple.
2nd, Andy, our church has been going through a capital campaign to build our very 1st building. (So hopefully the next time you guys kick-off a CD release there, it won't be at a Community College.) Anyway, the theme of the capital campaign came from the Lord's Prayer, "your kindgom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven." (Matthew 6:10). As we discussed this in preparation for the campaign, i noticed that we are to pray that His will be done ON EARTH as it already is in heaven. The context here is not just us, but all peoples. hence, we are not to dismiss the earth and say it's fallen. we are to seek and pray that it be redeemed.
As a shameless plug, Eric Priest, our church's music director (soon to be ordained), wrote a song last year that is The Lord's Prayer put to music. You can download it for free for a limited time here:
http://www.christtheking.com/extend/documents.html
Andy, thanks for writing.
--
lance
I was gonna try to stay out of this... but here I go. :-) Just a couple of things, and they've mostly been said by folks already in the comments.
First, yeah, other democracies have been attacked. Jud provided some good links. Britain. Spain. France. It's not just the USA.
Second: to say "hey, Russia used to have 20,000 nukes aimed at us and nothing ever happened, so why worry about the little guys" is, IMO, pretty flippant and scary. We came very close with the Russians, more than once. I'm reading a book about the Cuban Missile Crisis right now. If you really wanna be frightened, read http://www.brightstarsound.com/world_hero/article.html" rel="nofollow">this article about Stanislav Petrov, who pretty much single-handedly prevented all-out destruction on Sept. 26, 1983.
I'll stop there, other than to part ways with GFM a bit... the thought of casting a vote for Hillary frightens me in so many ways...
Aw, crap. Forgot to close my link. Sorry, folks.
We're supposed to "love our neighbors as ourselves" too.
Now, I will turn my other cheek all day long--or at least try to do so, with God's help.
But sitting back and telling my neighbor to turn his cheek while his bully government beats the *(^%!! out of him--is that loving my neighbor?
I'm not trying to be simplistic in my response, but it's too simplistic to say the "love your enemies" means we shouldn't go to war.
I forgot about Geof and the Hilary comment. Geof, Hilary is a criminal. voting for her is like endorsing organized crime. the media hasn't covered this, but she is under investigation for felony fundraising crimes. and there is hard evidence, right on YouTube.
Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq8aopATYyw
Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMfUajhL24I
she may figure out how to skate around this, but it doesn't change the fact that she should be in the Big House, not the White House.
contrast this with Ron Paul (or any other candidate with Ron Paul) and he looks really good. i love the part on the YouTube video that i linked in my previous message where Jon Stewart comments, "You seem to have consistent principle integrity. Americans don't usually to go for that. [Ron Paul laughs]"
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lance
CM - thanks for saying that. Even though my anti-abortion credentials pretty much suck, I feel like Pat Robertson, etc, are perfectly justified in focusing on things like abortion, because there's an issue where we are defending our neighbor. It's one thing to turn our own cheeks, it's quite another to say "turn your cheek; justice isn't important". So social justice, to me, implies even more than simply helping the poor and the orphans and widows; that's easy because everyone agrees that that should be done. It also means defending the unborn, and I think you could argue it means defending our country from potential assault.
While I happen to have been against the war in Iraq from the very beginning, I have to agree with Jack and Geoff (two Fs!) in that you make the connection between loving your enemies and the sinfulness of waging war a little too quickly.
Oh, and lastly, I want to third the comments about the nukes. Heh.