Tuesday
Aug232005
Here's to you, Mr. Robinson
Tuesday, August 23, 2005 at 05:52PM
Pat Robertson, please stop saying crazy things. We here in America know that you are just kind of a crazy old guy and that no one takes you seriously, but people in other countries don't all know this. When you say we should kill people, specifically Presidents of Venezuela, because they have things we want, specifically oil, you are advocating murder, and a number of other things the Bible, which you say you believe, speaks out very harshly against. So please stop. Quit your fake news show. No one believes it is real.
Seriously, though, what's the deal with this? How can someone so "Christian" as Pat get away with this? Sure, he predicts the Apocolypse every couple months, something the Bible says no one can do, not even Jesus, but people might actually take this comment seriously. And those people listening will be Venezuelan kids looking for an outlet for their anger at America, not the American government.
But why does someone feel that the Bible can justify murder, especially when its motivated by "they have what we want"? That is so evil, covetous and dangerous. And what he's advocating would be considered an act of war, or worse, terrorism. I mean, if someone in a foreign country went on TV and said that their government should kill Bush, we would label them a terrorist. How is Pat any different, just because he's American? He's not. He's an embarassment. So please, if you support him or his "ministry", stop. Put that money to good use with Compassion International or World Vision. Support Americans loving and helping people, instead of this crazy superiority complex. I'm not ashamed of Jesus, but I am ashamed of some of His people. Let's work to not be like this.
Seriously, though, what's the deal with this? How can someone so "Christian" as Pat get away with this? Sure, he predicts the Apocolypse every couple months, something the Bible says no one can do, not even Jesus, but people might actually take this comment seriously. And those people listening will be Venezuelan kids looking for an outlet for their anger at America, not the American government.
But why does someone feel that the Bible can justify murder, especially when its motivated by "they have what we want"? That is so evil, covetous and dangerous. And what he's advocating would be considered an act of war, or worse, terrorism. I mean, if someone in a foreign country went on TV and said that their government should kill Bush, we would label them a terrorist. How is Pat any different, just because he's American? He's not. He's an embarassment. So please, if you support him or his "ministry", stop. Put that money to good use with Compassion International or World Vision. Support Americans loving and helping people, instead of this crazy superiority complex. I'm not ashamed of Jesus, but I am ashamed of some of His people. Let's work to not be like this.
Reader Comments (18)
I agree. Shut your yap Mr. Robertson. And as someone who works in TV news, let me say that they pick up things like this and paint the broad stroke of "this is how Christians think."
How anyone supports this guy is beyond me.
I totally agree. But I'm also thinking, "When will we Christians realize that George W. Bush, to the same extent, is doing such things?" Don't get me wrong, I think our president is a fine man. But other countries think he and every other Christian in America is insane. It's not just Pat Robertson who's thought to be insane.
Right now the Repulican party has become the Christian party. How long before the churches of the world say, "We need to get out of this politics stuff. Those politicans have backstabbed us too many times.
Sure, Bush is against abortion. But he's also an advocate fo the death penalty and, like Mr. Robertson, asks for the death (or at least removal) of foreign leaders. They're not all that different, but that's the price to pay in today's political realm.
(OK, that all was really "out there". But it's my current thoughts on the subject; I haven't really figured it all out or made up my mind.)
I'm sitting down on the outside, but I'm standing and applauding on the inside.
And, um, Dan, you need to know that there is a huge difference between the death penalty for a convicted criminal and calling for the assassination of another country's president. Apples and oranges, man.
It's a huge mistake for Christians to avoid politics. I don't personally feel as if God has called any of us to simply sit back and denounce our leaders and ignore the political process (Romans 13:1). Robertson made an ignorant comment. This is not a valid opportunity to point out George Bush's "shortcomings." Do I agree wtih all of Bush's policies? No. But I will not be foolish enough to disregard history, which suggests that even Lincoln, who was greatly criticized and regarded as a failure during his presidency changed the course of America by instituting a wildly unpopular policy--freedom for slaves. Let's not forget that unpopular presidents and their policies are not always wrong.
Andy...WELL SAID! Why do the fruit cakes always end up on TV? Benny Hinn, Patty Boy, ect. BTW...Bush is the worst president in history. Bad Tax reform, bad Educational Policy, bad Foreign policy, huge deficit, and need we even mention a war that was based on weapons that no one has found? Lies and more lies. What is even more appalling is that he has the conservative religous rightwing under his thumb. History will remember this president as a failure. As a matter of fact....just go to www.google.com and type in the word "failure". Hey...who am I to argue with the googlebot?
[...] Anyway, Andy Osenga has done it again. This time he posted about Pat Robertson’s calling for the murder of another nations leader. Andy says it better than I ever could, so I’ll just link to his blog post about Pat Robertson and let you read about it over there. [...]
Hey Willow Drive, the term for that google bomb is "miserable failure." and just because you see it on the internet, doesn't mean it's true. For example, your reply to this blog entry.
"I mean, if someone in a foreign country went on TV and said that their government should kill Bush, we would label them a terrorist." - This is exactly what I've been thinking since I heard Pat's statement. Why does he think he can get away with such terroristic sentiments? I'm ashamed of his behavior, and agree with Steven, that the media will present this as the way ALL Christians behave!
I agree in the most part...but...this Chavez character is probably on his track to be every bit as bad as Saddam Hussein, but the media just wont show it like that. If you would ask anyone who has actually lived in Venezuela, they would unequivocally say, "Get this guy out of here!" We shouldn't kill him, but something needs to be done to provoke some sort of revolution to get him out of office before his true colors really start to show.
well said Andy V. Pat may have a few screws loose but he may not be completly off base here. i obviously dont think that killing the guy is the best thing, but some thing has to be done.
Willow are you ok? Do you have a low grade fever, or possibly another ailment that could explain the last post? i will be praying that you come to your senses. i know that it is pointless to argue with you. You could probably use a good history lesson though.
here is a small list of worse presidents:
1. Lyndon Johnson: he introduced the now failed "Great society", at least there are still poor people, and totally screwed up the Vietnam war.
2. Thomas Jefferson: yeah ole' TJ screwed up his share of things as well. does the imfamous tarrif ring a bell to any one?
3. Bill Clinton: while he was in office he was busy playing with cigars while buildings, embassies, and Navy ships were being blown up by the people we are fighting now.
4. Jimmy Carter: the "greatest ex-president". can you say double digit in flation, and American GI hostages
5. Warren G. Harding: Teapot Dome any one?
you get the idea.
Bush may not make the right choice all the time, but he does when it counts. the war, tax cuts, stem cells, etc.
BTW we didnt just go to war because of WMD's, that was part of a larger whole. also dont forget, the Wmd's were there at the end of the first gulf was. all we wanted to know was what happened to them. over 10 years later we finally did something about it. they were a ligit reason, as was Saddams support of the suicide bombers, mass graves containing more than 30,000 bodies each, political assasination and tourture, the atempted assasination of Bush 41, rape rooms, intelligence that Saddam wanted yellow cake uranium(yes those 16 words were correct), need i go on? there is a time for peace and a time for war. never befor in history has there been such a huge attempt to protect ciillians. sure they might die, but they are not in the crosshairs. the fact that we have to rehash this over and over again amazes me. pacifism has never produced peace. it has made slaves, subjects, and victims. but never peace. so you go ahead, listen to Michael Moore, and do your google searches to see how your friends feel. as for me will make up my own mind.
VOTE PRO-LIFE!!!
we can slop partisan shots back and forth at each other all we want...i think we could look deep at both parties and find either side left wanting-because the end purpose of a political party can never be the same as the end purpose of Christ.
it's because we're human, fallen, and selfish. we want our ideals to jump out to everyone because our "need to feel right" supercedes everything else (at least mine does) way too often.
i wish that it were different. but it's not, it's just not.
that being said, Pat Robertson is a crackpot that should not be speaking as a representative of the body of Christ.
and, hey yall (previous poster)...everycoffin that comes home draped in an american flag, every widow that goes to bed alone, every child that will grow up without knowing a father (or a mother), every parent that outlives their child because we are still in Iraq has felt the effect of a vote that seems a little less than "pro life."
Maybe something should be done with Chavez, but taking out leaders we don't like (or starting wars because we can) sets a dangerous precedent.
you said pacifism never produces peace...what of MLK, what of Gandhi, what of the Chinese man in front of the tank in Tiannemen Square?
I find myself obviously gravitating more to one side than the other, but my logic is not so flawed as to think that either is completely infallible.
i dont think that either side is infallible either, however, facts are not partisan. i do agree that MLK's peace brought a greater good, but what of the others you mentioned. India did gain independance, which is great, but to what avail? who did gain independance in India? not the Dalits which constitute nearly 1/3 of the population. also the chinese man at tiannemen square? a martyr for the cause of freedom for sure, but is China free? the Iraq "vote" as you call it has saved countless lives. mainly iraqi lives of course, but American as well. i do feel for those effected by the war. i hate that those kids wont live to know their parents, but what good is our power as a nation if we dont use it for good. i believe that God has given power to the powerfull and has commanded them to do his will. dont forget that Saddam was maybe the most deadly dictator of them all. he was possibly directly responsible for the deaths of 1,000,000 men, women, and children. can you imagine a more pro life vote than to save the lives of the thousands of iraqi citizens? maybe you feel that war for any reason is wrong. i respect your opinion no matter how much i disagree with it. i also refuse to sit back and let another poster bash my president without consequence just because they can. i dont like that this blog has become political. but dont put snide comments here if you cant back them up.
hey-hey yall
thanks for the post. i'm glad for continued dialogue.
he's my president too...just don't agree carte blanche...
you're right about the dalit population...but an independent india opens them up to freedom quicker than they would've been as a colony.
the chinese guy in tiannemen square wasn't killed-so he's not a martyr. he stopped the tanks that were rolling to squash the demonstration-a peaceful resolution that lessened the communist grip.
i wish we'd grabbed saddam the first time around. the second invasion would've been unneccessary. i don't necessarily disagree with us going in, i'm just sad that we're still there. and it just makes me sadder with the news of each loss. my comments weren't meant as snide. we just buried 5 young guys last week in my area (cincinnati), and the wounds are a little tender.
we probably needed to use our 'power' in places like Darfur...and Rwanda. our mere presence brought a quicker resolution in Liberia. not sure if that was pacifism, but if intimidation stopped the killing, i guess that was fine, too.
the american lives saved by establishing a government in Iraq? it's speculative at best...not that i'm not happy that they're working towards democracy, i'm just saying...
all that to say this. i wish that we'd removed hussein from power the first time. i wish that we weren't still there, but i realize that we can't just pull out...
i wish that we as america and that we as americans would use our power and affluence for more than what we do. i can be as idealistic as i want to be about what i believe, but how many times have i prayed for soldiers? not enough. how many times have i given money to combat debt in africa, to free children prostituted in south asia, to see all citizens in all nations find equal footing? not even close.
hey yall, we probably could find that we agree on more than we think, and i think that we would find that God would want us as a body to learn from each other to draw others unto him rather than take shots at each other... i'm not opposed to the religious right, but deep down, i feel that war breaks the heart of God...but sometimes in a fallen world it's inevitable.
none of this is intended as snide. hopefully i've explained my comments...
truth be known, i want to tee off on your presidential facts with some of my own, and your spelling, but that wouldn't be right. just keeping it real. thanks for sharing your heart. i really do respect you too.
bill
....ya know, it really is becoming apparent just how polarized we seem. Granted, I did comment on Bush and the War and I still believe that peace is always the answer. But I never meant to alienate anyone. I was having lunch just the other day with a new co-worker and she mentioned how lucky we are to have "a strong, decisive president...". I nearly choked. Not because I disagree with her (and I do) but because I would have never guessed that she would align herself with him. Up until that point I was pretty impressed with her...and then I had to stop and think that maybe I was wrong. No! I wasn't wrong! She was a really great person...and she is so much more than the sum her politics. So my only comment to her was this...."ya know it really is sad when you consider just how polarized the nation has become....there are very few people in the middle who seem willing to work together for bi-partisan efforts. It seems that way in politics, work, church, even families." Her response was "yeah....its all because of the way Kerry ran his campaign". Wow. No reason to mention my political affiliations. What good would it do? I would only alienate someone. So I would like retract my comments. I'll save my "ani-bush" rant. Not because someone typed a list of history “facts�. You see history, just like current political events, are all a matter of prospective and spin. Propaganda on all sides tends to color a situation. So, apologies for a weak moment.
A Franciscan Prayer
May God bless you with discomfort at easy answers,
half truths, superficial relationships,
so that you will live deep within your heart.
May God bless you with anger at injustice,
oppression and exploitation of people
so that you will work for justice, equality and peace.
May God bless you with tears to shed
for those who suffer from pain, rejection,
starvation and war, so that you will reach out your hand
to comfort them and change their pain into joy.
And may God bless you with the foolishness
to think that you can make a difference in the world,
so that you will do the things
which others tell you cannot be done.
So to anyone who really believes that War ever solves anything….revisit the story of the Gospel. Even in a true community, we experience conflict. Conflict can be a positive or negative experience, depending on how we respond. I don’t always know what the correct response should be, but I do know that when we respond without love and grace, especially grace, it hurts the community.
mynameisbill, thanks for the post. I am sorry if I got carried away. I am sorry about your local boys who didn't make it home. we may have to agree to disagree about the war and America's influence or lack of influence in the world. what I feel like we can agree on is that we need to finish the job in order to make the sacrifice worth it. I agree that we should have gotten rid of Saddam the first time, but we didn't. if you agree with us going in to the war, how can you say we should already be out? we are clearly not finished. I really don’t want to get side-tracked in all this again.
I also have enjoyed the dialogue. you seem like a great guy and I think you are right, we probably do agree on most things. I would love to hear your thoughts on the presidents. and I apologize for my spelling, I am another helpless victim of spell check, a service Andy does not provide.
hey yall...
thanks for writing back...i don't think that we're done over there, as much as i wish we were. i wish we'd had a plan on getting out when we went in. of course, you can't establish democracy overnight. i have fallen victim to wishful thinking.
his girl i supervise at work is getting married in october and her fiance(husband by then) is headed over in January.
i specifically pray that those drafting the constitution over there make good quick decisions so as many as possible can come home safely.
we're closer than we thought, hey yall. i hope the people in charge of making decisions can get over themselves and talk as we have. you rock.
bill
I don't know why pat said what he did, but america is not so righteous that it is exempt from the judgement of God. God is loving but HE is also just. many christians have turned their backs on God and think He will still bless them. repent!!! you don't have to suffer what america is about to suffer.
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